As the chief editor of the postmodern philosophy official account, Maximilian Wagner interpreted various psychological phenomena in the current society from the perspective of postmodern philosophy and analyzed the underlying reasons behind the phenomena in this interview.
Q: The current pace of social development is rapid. The old system is being deconstructed and disintegrated, and new systems have not yet formed. How do you understand the impact of this trend of deconstructionism and nihilism on people's psychology today?
A: This is not a bad thing. For example, nihilism is considered a negative attitude towards meaning, but meaning itself needs to be examined. Just like Nietzsche said, 'We reassess all values' (Umwertung Aller Werte.) He does not mean proposing a new value. For example, we propose using morality to resist money and power. However, once morality is truly proposed, it will also form a new territory of power, just like Christianity has a clear and strict hierarchy, a rule inherited from generation to generation, and a tendency of downward exploitation. Although morality resists money and power, it also forms an inherited social structure in the process of dissemination. So revaluing all values is actually estimating whether the value itself has meaning for people, returning to the perspective of subjectivity, returning value to the human itself, allowing people to examine value, instead of the other way round.
Many meanings are given and defined by society rather than people, such as reputation, position, and money. People may also find it absurd that they are like the stone pushed by Sisyphus, driven by meaning to more absurd occasions. The stone itself has not done anything wrong, but has to face a more absurd fate than Sisyphus.
Whether an unexamined life is worth living is a question that needs to be considered. This kind of deconstructionism and nihilism can precisely examine whether our life is worth living. It may not necessarily be a result, but perhaps the beginning of a new life. As for the phenomenon of deconstructing authority, authority can bring fanaticism, but without authority, the anxiety in daily life becomes more prominent. It is ambivalent.
Q: How do you view the alienation risks that capitalism and fast-paced life pose to human psychology? How do you think we should respond from a psychological perspective?
A: The risks of alienation brought about by capitalism and the fast-paced nature of modern life are significant when considering their impact on human psychology. While it may seem that disengaging from society entirely can shield one from these risks, the reality is that contact with society inevitably leads to change. Rather than defining all changes as alienation, it is more accurate to view them as a form of homogenization, since the complete suspension of the self and disconnection from everything is impossible to imagine. In order to address this risk, a psychological perspective suggests promoting acceptance and embracing diversity as a means of resistance. By cultivating an attitude of openness and tolerance, we can navigate the challenges posed by alienation and foster a more inclusive and harmonious society.
Q: What challenges do you think high competition and the rapid development of artificial intelligence have posed to human psychology? What’s your opinion on the relationship between internal competition and competitiveness?
A: Leading a highly demanding and competitive life can have profound effects on an individual's physical and mental well-being. Consider, for instance, a programmer who works overtime and sacrifices sleep, driven by societal expectations of performance, bonuses, and promotions. Despite the physical toll, such as neck pain and tired eyes, these discomforts are suppressed due to the prevailing psychological atmosphere of competition among programmers. In this scenario, life itself becomes something to be abandoned, merely an obstacle preventing further accumulation of wealth. Life becomes perceived as repulsive, akin to a revolting maggot—a separate entity, an unwelcome intruder in the pursuit of material success. This phenomenon reflects a deep emptiness towards life.
The concept of "involution," characterized by relentless salary comparisons and enduring high-intensity labor, represents a distorted form of competition rooted in a lack of genuine competitiveness. It is also indicative of the stifling of creativity within society. The rigid structure of our society hampers the emergence of creative industries, and even when they do emerge, they face resistance as they disrupt established markets. The relationship between electronic cigarettes and traditional cigarettes exemplifies this dynamic. Therefore, I believe that these challenges primarily stem from societal factors and structural issues.
Q: Do you think that in contemporary society, how should psychological workers cope with and solve the problem of people swaying between "involution" and "lie down"? What is the essence of the involution problem? Is it related to the population density of the country?
A: This question addresses three types of individuals. The first type firmly embraces involution, and their psychology tends to be consistent since they have a clear sense of purpose. However, in times of overall economic decline, if their enthusiasm for internal competition fails to yield desired results, it can lead to mental distress. The second type chooses to "lie down," seeking a more relaxed and idle lifestyle. While they may avoid significant psychological or physical problems, financial challenges can arise. The third type of individual is characterized by confusion, lacking a clear path and oscillating between involution and idleness.
The essence of the involution problem lies in the lack of creative industries within society, resulting in an overabundance of repetitive work. This issue is not directly linked to population density. For instance, Japan has a higher population density than China, yet it enjoys a welfare system similar to that of Northern Europe. The scarcity of per capita resources is fundamentally a problem of reproduction. For example, some individuals study philosophy, become philosophy professors, and continue teaching philosophy. This reproduction of educational resources perpetuates the issue.
In many ways, it is also a matter of economic structure and different models of development. From a national perspective, it is crucial to attract foreign investment for infrastructure development. Internal circulation within the country may be suppressed, as exemplified by the dominance of education and training institutions like New Oriental. This dynamic is largely influenced by our position within the World Trade Organization, where China serves as the designated global factory.
Q: Some individuals argue that exam-oriented learning is essentially a highly repetitive task. From your observations, how does this irrational internal competition shape the psychology of teenagers? Furthermore, do you have any insights and potential solutions to address this issue?
A: When considering the impact of exam-oriented learning, one prominent example that comes to mind is the mass exercise learning mode at Hengshui High School in Hebei. A significant consequence of this approach is the heightened aggressiveness it fosters among adolescents towards their peers who differ from them. This irrational internal competition inevitably leads to a distinct division between Hengshui High School and other educational institutions. As the number of exercises completed increases, the subsequent exercises become even more demanding, intensifying the pressure on those who strive to keep up. Consequently, a rift is formed between individuals who succeed in entering prestigious schools and those who do not, resulting in divergent psychological states. Those who feel disconnected from social relationships, language, and their immediate environment, in a way, become dehumanized.
This dynamic gives rise to animosity towards subcultures as a manifestation of this aggression. For instance, individuals fixated on academic achievements may harbor resentment towards figures like Ding Zhen, while some Chinese individuals may exhibit discriminatory attitudes towards people of African descent, basing their assumptions on stereotypes. These students themselves often experience profound feelings of depression. To cope, they establish a sense of identity by fixating on delusions and nurturing resentment towards certain groups or establishments. There is a pervasive delusion that they project onto bars, tattoo shops, and other aspects of society they perceive as threatening.
Finding solutions to address this aggression and bias is challenging since it originates from a deep-rooted resentment stemming from their inability to experience personal enjoyment. Their fantasies revolve around others' perceived abundance of pleasure in realms they are unable to access. This might persist even after they have personally engaged in those activities. Consequently, the real solution may lie in dismantling the environment that perpetuates such sexual repression. Their fantasies essentially revolve around the notion of others monopolizing women, which is a deeply patriarchal idea. The phenomenon exemplified by figures like Ding Zhen and Cai Xukun reflects the resentment structure often observed among these academically focused individuals.
Q: In the post-pandemic era, individuals increasingly seek stability and spiritual support in their lives. What, in your opinion, are the effects of the epidemic on people's psychological well-being today? Additionally, how do you interpret the research indicating a significant rise in excessive speech on social media following the pandemic?
A: The pandemic has had a notable impact on economic confidence, which can be observed in its influence on business ventures. Many individuals have become wary of investing due to the substantial disruption caused by the pandemic. Throughout this period, we have experienced an extreme state of life politics, a concept that the philosopher Foucault, with his background in medicine, might not have foreseen. Medical technology, as a political tool, has the potential to strip away our subjectivity, reducing us to bare creatures. This experience can be considered a form of collective trauma, as it disrupts the stability of our lives comprehensively. For instance, being confined in a shelter hospital profoundly disrupts an individual's sense of stability. Consequently, it is understandable that people, now more than ever, are inclined to save rather than spend, a manifestation of the trauma they have endured.
Regarding the surge in excessive speech on social media, it is important to note that such behavior has always existed to some extent. However, it may have been magnified by the overall economic downturn. From my perspective, there have always been individuals espousing extremist views. During the pandemic, discriminatory remarks against Black people, for example, became increasingly prevalent. These individuals seek a sense of connection between themselves and the "Other." If they cannot find personal fulfillment in their chosen careers, they have two options for existence. The first is to focus on their own bodies, as seen in the prevalence of dexamethasone abuse in Northeast China, where individuals engage in self-mutilation or extreme forms of pleasure-seeking. The second option is to establish a connection to sacred sovereignty and ideology.
These academically focused individuals lack financial resources, physical attractiveness, social status, and recognized symbols in their reality. Therefore, they can only find existence as "Spiritual Guys," similar to the Northeastern culture in China. In the face of economic decline and population loss, they adopt a humorous approach to life and gaming. While this portrayal may be seen as a stereotype, the popularity of dexamethasone abuse among young women in Northeast China indicates their sense of abandonment amid economic challenges and declining population. Consequently, they find solace by connecting their existence to their bodies and life itself, often resulting in expressions tied to the physical and existential aspects of their being.
Q: Your editor-in-chief's official account is named "Post-modernism Philosophy." How do you perceive the relationship between science, philosophy, and religion?
A: I believe that science, philosophy, and religion are distinct yet interconnected domains that offer different perspectives and approaches to understanding the world. Science is a systematic and empirical approach to studying the natural world, relying on observation, experimentation, and evidence-based reasoning. Its primary goal is to uncover knowledge about the physical universe and natural phenomena.
Philosophy, on the other hand, deals with fundamental questions about knowledge, existence, ethics, and the nature of reality. It employs critical thinking, logical reasoning, and conceptual analysis to explore these inquiries. Philosophy often engages in discussions and debates that can overlap with scientific inquiries, such as the nature of consciousness or the origins of the universe. However, it is important to note that philosophy does not rely solely on empirical evidence and can explore questions beyond the scope of scientific investigation.
Religion, while sharing some philosophical aspects, is primarily concerned with matters of faith, spirituality, and the divine. It encompasses systems of beliefs, practices, and values that provide guidance and meaning to individuals and communities. Religion often incorporates philosophical and metaphysical concepts, but its foundations are rooted in faith and revelation rather than empirical evidence or logical reasoning.
While science and philosophy both aim to understand the world, they employ different methodologies and have distinct areas of focus. Science relies on empirical evidence and the scientific method to explore the natural world, while philosophy employs rational inquiry and critical thinking to examine fundamental questions.
Religion, on the other hand, relies on faith, revelation, and spiritual experiences to provide answers to existential and metaphysical questions. It often involves belief in a higher power or powers and incorporates rituals, moral codes, and communal practices.
Despite their differences, there can be interactions and overlaps between these domains. Scientific discoveries can have philosophical implications, raising questions about the nature of reality, consciousness, or the ethical implications of certain technologies. Philosophical inquiry can also inform scientific investigations by exploring the foundations of scientific reasoning or examining the implications of scientific discoveries.
Similarly, religion can engage with philosophy by exploring philosophical questions related to the nature of God, the purpose of life, or the relationship between faith and reason. Some religious traditions also incorporate elements of scientific inquiry, seeking harmony between religious beliefs and scientific understanding.
Q: I learned that you have some research on feminism. What is your opinion on feminism itself, including the branch of radical feminism?
A: In fact, radical feminism is divided into two types which I call Europe-American type, and South Korean type. The two are completely different in structure and do not have any connection of structural inheritance. Radical feminism in Europe and America aims to eliminate gender, just like the radical left wants to eliminate ethnic groups. For example, Japan had a lot of atrocities against China in the past, and there were two ways to oppose Japan: internationalism and extreme nationalism. The latter supports maintaining the stability of national order boundaries and opposes Japanese imperialism through making himself an imperialist and then killing Japan back. This once again strengthens the separation between Chinese and Japanese people, which denies the initial purpose.
However, reincarnation as a Japanese is not his own choice. There is a structural reconstruction here.
Q: Some gender theories advocate for the "elimination of gender" and "individual definitions of gender," while Queer theory posits that "gender is fluid." These theories have effectively detached the definition of gender from its conventional boundaries and are predominantly rooted in the realm of social construction. How do you perceive these gender theories? Can true gender equality be attained?
A: When considering these gender theories, it is important to acknowledge the context we find ourselves in, such as South Korea, a country marked by totalitarianism and significant wealth disparities. Within such an environment, extreme behaviors and ideologies are not uncommon. The issues of women's rights and human rights are both of paramount importance. The wealth gap exacerbates social repression, leaving individuals grappling with their existence, making madness somewhat understandable. The notably low fertility rate in South Korea can be seen as a form of resistance against an unjust hierarchical system. Whether it is radical feminism in South Korea or the male power countering it, both sides advocate for a rejection of childbearing. This unconscious rejection ultimately diminishes the economic benefits of the region. Consequently, the affluent class seeks financial opportunities elsewhere, leading to the eventual loss of economic value and the eradication of exploitation. It is only in this scenario that true gender equality and fundamental human rights can truly flourish. However, achieving this ideal state is unattainable in reality, as the complexities of society pose significant barriers. This is how I comprehend the situation.
Q: In today's society, what role do psychologists (psychoanalysts) play? How do you perceive the public's misconceptions and biases towards psychoanalysis?
A: In China, many individuals engage in acts of deception, although it would be unfair to label their actions as inherently wrong. For instance, psychological courses are prevalent, primarily attracting the middle-class demographic. Participants delve into repentance, love promotion, embracing oneself, exploring their family backgrounds, relinquishing past burdens, and arranging their personal lives. In many ways, these courses offer a form of healing to these individuals. Although I am not fond of the term 'positive energy,' it does contribute to fostering a more positive outlook on life, painting a better reality, and cultivating healthier attitudes toward it. While these individuals play the role of deceivers, bringing happiness to others through deception cannot be deemed entirely negative. Additionally, there are conventional psychological counselors who may, in fact, be inferior to these deceivers. Deceivers are motivated by financial gains and strive to provide customer-oriented service. In contrast, some so-called legitimate and esteemed psychological counselors, backed by authoritative endorsements, may exhibit poor attitudes and arrogance towards their clients. They may even disclose consultation content to parents and school authorities without consent, which is highly inappropriate within the realm of psychological counseling. Of course, it is also important to acknowledge that there are excellent psychological counselors. Public misconceptions and biases towards psychoanalysis are prevalent due to its limited popularity in China. Many people believe that psychoanalysis is a marginalized discipline, favoring neuroscience and related fields instead. Personally, I perceive psychoanalysis more as a philosophical symbol. If I were to encounter an elderly person in a rural area insisting on teaching me Hegel and the art of mind-reading, I would not find it objectionable. As an analyst, one should possess the ability to navigate various situations without hindering further communication.
Q: How can knowledge and theories from fields such as psychoanalysis, philosophy, and sociology be integrated to assist individuals and society in enhancing their understanding and pursuit of the meaning of life?
A: The pursuit of an individual's meaning of life should be a personal journey rather than one imposed by external forces. I initially criticized the imposition of meaning from external sources. Personally, I perceive life itself as an open-ended experience, an opportunity for exploration and enjoyment. Consequently, I seldom deliberate on such matters as I am already immersed in the experience of living. In terms of society, the quest for meaning can be fostered by creating an environment that encourages open dialogue and self-expression. In my view, psychoanalysis holds an advantage over Buddhism in this aspect. While Lacan's theories share some similarities with Buddhism, such as the emergence of the real, imaginary, and symbolic realms in Lacanian theory, the fundamental difference lies in their essence. Buddhism tends towards "solipsism," allowing only the individual to speak and establish their version of truth, whereas psychoanalysis is theoretical, emphasizing the importance of individual self-expression and interpretation of personal truth. If society aims to enable every individual to discover the meaning of life, it should strive to create a space where everyone's voice can be heard and respected.
Producer & Planning｜Isabella Wang
Interviewer｜Christine
Text｜Liu Yang
Editor｜Isabella Wang
Recommender｜Xizhi Yu
Formatting｜Amy Pan
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